Intel is ready to unveil its latest Core Ultra desktop CPU series. With a tile-based design, Arrow Lake marks a major architectural shift, aiming for improved performance and efficiency.
Intel Core Ultra 9 285K Review: Arrow Lake is a Mess
- Thread starter Steve
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Wow, what a bad look for Intel just before the 9000X3D chips drop.
Billybobjoey
Posts: 34 +36
Issues aside, $600 is ridiculous especially when you need a brand new motherboard and (maybe?) brand new RAM. In a world where the 7800x3d is available for under $500 and a decent X670 board is available for ~$200, I don't see much reason to go with these Intel chips. Thank you for the review Steve! I am looking forward to a deeper dive on this, hopefully the Windows issues are ironed out by then.
Achaios
Posts: 582 +1,503
Really bad news for Intel and for gamers too.
If AMD CPU's are the only viable gaming CPU's, AMD will ofc jack up the prices.
Only 10 years have passed since the release of the legendary 4790K. It is inconceivable to see how far has Intel fallen.
P.S.: +points for Tech Jesus' involvement.
If AMD CPU's are the only viable gaming CPU's, AMD will ofc jack up the prices.
Only 10 years have passed since the release of the legendary 4790K. It is inconceivable to see how far has Intel fallen.
P.S.: +points for Tech Jesus' involvement.
What the hell happened? Even as somebody who doesn't like Intel... this is so much worse than I expected.
At this rate even their future generation of CPUs won't beat the 9000x3D CPUs. I doubt they'll beat even the 7800x3D... forget about the 9800x3D.
At this rate even their future generation of CPUs won't beat the 9000x3D CPUs. I doubt they'll beat even the 7800x3D... forget about the 9800x3D.
This is Intels first tiled chips. Basically the same as AMD Chiplets, only AMD had been doing this for close to a decade now.
They also ditched hyper-threading.
It's not a bad first attempt at tiled CPUs from Intel, but clearly far from perfect.
I've been reading reviews on this site for some time. They seem increasingly dubious, with observations and conclusions at odds with what other reviewers publish, based on a conception of what they think the product should be as compared to what it is and what it is, and then raging about the difference. Sometimes it seems like a childish anger at what it is technically and financially possible. I guess vitriol captures eyeballs but it also makes the value of the reviews kind of hinky. Which is too bad as these guys are clearly capable of technically good work.
People are still going to get suckered by Intel's marketing though.
Let's face It - We are reaching the limit of Moore's Law both in CPU and GPU (per $ at least), and that's a GOOD THING. We will be buying PCs for life, and devs will have to eventually optimize, rather than count on growing performance (per dollar & per Watt).
"ditched hyper-threading" - I always saw this as their "power move" to win in gaming since disabling HT often improved FPS with intel CPUs. And this isn't Intel's first tile based consumer CPU, that would be Meteor Lake.
To put things into perspective... if Intel doesn't deliver 20% or more perf improvement in gaming with their next gen CPUs they won't beat the 7000 x3D chips (let's say 7% gains from software/bios updates and 15% gen on gen on top of that 5%, so ~23% in total). I think even with that they won't be close to the 9800x3D.
Forget about Intel competing with Zen 6. If Zen 5 Turin server results are any indication, AMD is leaving a LOT of performance on the table for desktop CPUs because they didn't change the I/O chiplet like they did on the server side. They're also using an older process node. I can see AMD just releasing Zen5+ with the new I/O chiplet as a mid-gen update and take their time with Zen6.
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The 7800X3D was a great buy at $340, doesn't look like I'm going to need to upgrade for a while.
Both the 9000 series and now the Ultra 200 see good productivity gains, so I guess it really depends on what you are going for. It's clear AMD has a major advantage though with efficiency still. Intel will likely work out the gaming kinks and it looks like it will still be a solid gaming processor when they do. That being said, Intel could really have used some good news here and this isn't impressive at all.
Both the 9000 series and now the Ultra 200 see good productivity gains, so I guess it really depends on what you are going for. It's clear AMD has a major advantage though with efficiency still. Intel will likely work out the gaming kinks and it looks like it will still be a solid gaming processor when they do. That being said, Intel could really have used some good news here and this isn't impressive at all.
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jellowiggler
Posts: 8 +9
"We expect these teething issues will be addressed quickly, though we are unsure why 24H2 caused so many problems. It's particularly odd because Intel reportedly did all their benchmarking on 24H2 using the Insider Preview build from August and did not report any issues. Nevertheless, we've spoken with multiple reviewers who also encountered problems, even with 23H2, and board manufacturers confirmed there are issues with 24H2."
Intel - Nothing to see here, everything is fine, we benchmarked and QAed everything extensively. - Just like on the 13th and 14th gen?
"Trust" us! "We are the established name in CPUs!". - Ouch. Riiiiiight.
Trust factor now zero.
Intel - Nothing to see here, everything is fine, we benchmarked and QAed everything extensively. - Just like on the 13th and 14th gen?
"Trust" us! "We are the established name in CPUs!". - Ouch. Riiiiiight.
Trust factor now zero.
Nobina
Posts: 4,585 +5,629
Maybe in a few years, Intel will progress to Core2Quad performance levels, banking on that nostalgia.
agentnate009
Posts: 8 +11
That may be, but I blame them because it amounts to very unprofessional journalism for hardware reviews. They can do better, and they should be expected to do better.
Let's not exaggerate. They handled both intel and AMD reviews as they should in a very professional way.
agentnate009
Posts: 8 +11
Another reviewer noted that in Cyberpunk, when they prioritized P cores, The 285 was, wait for it, 2% faster than the 14900; but Techspot considers, per the 9700X review, 2% better to be a flop. It may be the case that the E and P cores are not being utilized properly with gaming, nevertheless, other reviewers are not seeing significant uplift in performance over the 14900.
agentnate009
Posts: 8 +11
Most of the review is fine, until they start throwing "flop" around. That is where their professionalism left the building. Intel has fallen on some hard times, just as AMD in years past, but there is no need for their obvious fanboyism in published articles especially when Arrow Lake looks really bad compared to 14900 versus comparison of AMD 7000 versus 9000 parts.
I remember being an early Zen adopter. I thoroughly questioned my decision to move from my 2500K to the Ryzen 1700X for my 2017 build. Plunked a 5600X in there and it gave it brand new life.
Agree with the final comment regarding the potential. Intel slashed a ton of their power use AND improved performance in most apps. Yes, the 7900/7950s and X3Ds are doing much better and don't even need to compete. YET. But if this new tech can find its stride on the next release...I don't know, I think there's some hope.
And, it's nice to see efforts from both companies being made towards efficiency. Just discovered Radeon Chill, knocked off 100W from my 6800XT when not moving in game (BG3).
Agree with the final comment regarding the potential. Intel slashed a ton of their power use AND improved performance in most apps. Yes, the 7900/7950s and X3Ds are doing much better and don't even need to compete. YET. But if this new tech can find its stride on the next release...I don't know, I think there's some hope.
And, it's nice to see efforts from both companies being made towards efficiency. Just discovered Radeon Chill, knocked off 100W from my 6800XT when not moving in game (BG3).
agentnate009
Posts: 8 +11
Intel relied on boosting power to insane levels to compete, when that hit a limit, they are left with having to innovate to improve performance by improving hardware rather than feeding it more power. AMD tried the more power route with Bulldozer and it didn't work out long term. I built an AM4 platform in 2019 and I am beyond thrilled that I have been able to upgrade the CPU to newer and faster CPUs without having to buy another mobo, or memory, etc. I'm waiting to see what Zen 6 or 7 brings to the table before upgrading the platform.
agentnate009
Posts: 8 +11
This is a professional conclusion:
"Are the Intel Core Ultra 9 285K and Intel Core Ultra 5 245K good CPUs? The CPUs have their place, for the right dollar amount. The Intel Core Ultra 9 285K and Core Ultra 5 245K are not bad multi-core/multi-thread performing CPUs, in fact, this is their strong suit. If you require workloads that are multi-threaded or do content creation, video rendering, or 3D rendering, they can be appealing for those tasks. What will be challenging will be new AMD Holiday Promotions that have been announced, which could eventually just become the norm in pricing. If that’s true, then the battle is very strong and there’s a hard road ahead for Arrow Lake."
"Are the Intel Core Ultra 9 285K and Intel Core Ultra 5 245K good CPUs? The CPUs have their place, for the right dollar amount. The Intel Core Ultra 9 285K and Core Ultra 5 245K are not bad multi-core/multi-thread performing CPUs, in fact, this is their strong suit. If you require workloads that are multi-threaded or do content creation, video rendering, or 3D rendering, they can be appealing for those tasks. What will be challenging will be new AMD Holiday Promotions that have been announced, which could eventually just become the norm in pricing. If that’s true, then the battle is very strong and there’s a hard road ahead for Arrow Lake."
Eldrach
Posts: 164 +167
We’re entering the monopoly stage here for AMD cpu’s and Nvidia gpu’s. Bad news for everyone - prices will skyrocket
agentnate009
Posts: 8 +11
AMD has not captured that much market share yet, Intel is still dominating across the board, but their recent missteps have allowed AMD to gain some market share percentage points. Nvidia, is dominating more than Intel is with AMD. Prices are going to go up for bleeding edge hardware, those TSMC wafers for the newest nodes are getting pricier much faster.
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